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Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 31 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1287<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Re: [OT] Who's that knocking on my door? (was Re: [OT] One Day InPeace)<BR>
Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace 2<BR>
Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Re: Wizard of Oz (Was Re: Traveller economics) [OT]<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: opengl95.exe<BR>
Re: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace 2<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: Critical Mass<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller:Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re Maps<BR>
Re: Playing with Uzis...<BR>
Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
RE: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
[OT] Web pages (was: Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up)<BR>
Don't say I never listen to you...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:38:54 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
That would be for PC's.<BR>
<BR>
On the Mac side, MacAddict (in their November issue) includes StrataVision3D<BR>
and a limited edition of Cinema4d GO, which is upgradeable to their entry<BR>
level product for $50. Not a bad deal, because it comes with a CD called<BR>
'Spaceship Parts', and the entry level program is $200 retail. ;-) Cinema 4D<BR>
is a pretty nice program. Some of the pros on the Strata list have been raving<BR>
about it. I've played with it a tiny bit...worked through the intial tutorial.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Wwweellllllll, about the best way to get a taste of it would be to try and<BR>
> find one of those freebie disks of trueSpace2 (IIRC) floating around with<BR>
> magazines.  More powerful program than something like PovRay, which you can<BR>
> download for free.  Hard to get realistic results with PR though.  Second<BR>
> thing is to scour the 'Net and read everything you can find on the newstands<BR>
> about doing 3D.  Tutorials are your friends :)  That's how I've learned<BR>
> (that and experience...I'm picking something new up all the time).<BR>
> <BR>
> Jesse<BR>
> <BR>
> >Hey, don't feel bad.  At least you get end products.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I really wan to try some of this.  How does one get started?  What software<BR>
> has<BR>
> >the best balance of ease of use and usefulness?  any advice you Masters<BR>
> would<BR>
> >give to anyone foolish enough to think he can join you?<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:42:46 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> it comes from a Star Trek mailing list I am on.  I'll have to look into that.<BR>
> Thanks for the thought.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, there are a _bunch_ of ST-related mesh sites out there, aalmost as many<BR>
as there are StarWars.<BR>
<BR>
I'd start looking at:<BR>
<BR>
http://avalon.viewpoint.com/<BR>
<BR>
and peruse their links.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:48:54 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Somebody mentioned that POVRAY was free.  How easy to use is povray?  Is it<BR>
> worth the time to download it because it is obviously worth the price of<BR>
> nothing.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
POV-Ray is free, and quite capable. BUT, and this is a HUGE BUT. POV-Ray is<BR>
ONLY a rendering engine, NOT a modeller...you can do stuff entirely in POV-Ray<BR>
by writing code (stuff like:<BR>
<BR>
Sphere {<x,y,z>, Texture Wood,, }<BR>
<BR>
with a bunch of other things in it.)<BR>
<BR>
 The latest versions have some quite powerful features. <BR>
<BR>
Most people use something like Moray, though to do the modelling and scene<BR>
assembly, then render in POV-Ray.<BR>
<BR>
Check out http://www.povray.org for more details.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:14:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Probably for the Java rollovers.  While all the eye-candy looks great on<BR>
> sites that use them, haveing worked professionally as a web graphics<BR>
> designer for the last 3 months or so, I constantly hear arguements about<BR>
> page load times, overhead, etc.  While I WAS planning on doing something<BR>
> extensive with Java and having lots o' bells and whistles when I updated my<BR>
> site, I've since changed my mind.  Most the redone site will have is tables<BR>
> and maybe a couple of (short!) animated .gifs.<BR>
<BR>
Is there a version of Lynx that can do tables? (And if there is, how do<BR>
I get my sysadmin to install it on his Solaris box so I can use it with<BR>
my shell account?)<BR>
<BR>
And in any case, how hard is it to make the "label" for the GIFs<BR>
selectable so us folks with text mode browsers can download them to<BR>
view later?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:08:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Who's that knocking on my door? (was Re: [OT] One Day InPeace)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Of Buddhists, to my knowledge only the Nichiren Shoushu and their offshoot,<BR>
> the Soka Gakkai, proselytize.  They can be very obnoxious about it.<BR>
> Nichiren was a very militant fellow himself.  I have never, nor will I, ever<BR>
> said that Christians are the only ones that proselytize obnoxiously.  But<BR>
> they are the ones I encounter most often.  The Nichiren tend not to knock<BR>
> out doors, but they are the only non-Christians I've ever seen passing out<BR>
> tracts.<BR>
<BR>
Well, there are always the Hare Krishnas. <BR>
<BR>
You knowm when you stop to think about it, that's one *strange*<BR>
religion. They consider themselves to have converted to and be<BR>
practicing a religion, yet that religion ("Hindusm") requires that you<BR>
be *born* into it! I'm told this *greatly* irritates *real* Hindus. <BR>
<BR>
Need I mention that a similar situation (say, with the religion of an<BR>
alien race) has *great* potential for a Traveller scenario?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:32:08 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
Um.....couldn't tell ya' :)  We write content for 4.0+ equipped browsers at<BR>
my job.  'Sides, I just do the graphics, man ;)  I may have a seperate page<BR>
that's little more than a index of all the non-interface graphics of my<BR>
site.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 10:24 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Probably for the Java rollovers.  While all the eye-candy looks great on<BR>
>> sites that use them, haveing worked professionally as a web graphics<BR>
>> designer for the last 3 months or so, I constantly hear arguements about<BR>
>> page load times, overhead, etc.  While I WAS planning on doing something<BR>
>> extensive with Java and having lots o' bells and whistles when I updated<BR>
my<BR>
>> site, I've since changed my mind.  Most the redone site will have is<BR>
tables<BR>
>> and maybe a couple of (short!) animated .gifs.<BR>
><BR>
>Is there a version of Lynx that can do tables? (And if there is, how do<BR>
>I get my sysadmin to install it on his Solaris box so I can use it with<BR>
>my shell account?)<BR>
><BR>
>And in any case, how hard is it to make the "label" for the GIFs<BR>
>selectable so us folks with text mode browsers can download them to<BR>
>view later?<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:46:21 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace 2<BR>
<BR>
>>But I think the idea that forceful advocacy is a sign of moral inferiority<BR>
is going too far.  Some of those who oppose laws forbidding the peaceful<BR>
picketing of abortion clinics are veterans of the sixties who remember when<BR>
such tactics were used against them.<BR>
>><BR>
>Having walked my share of picket lines (legally), I can tell you that there<BR>
are quite a few people out there who view any activity that impedes them as<BR>
wrong. A picket line (in a legal strike or demonstration) can legally slow<BR>
you down (although after five minutes they must allow you to proceed), and<BR>
yet I've been run down by little old ladies who equate delaying them with<BR>
Nazism. (I kid you not!)<BR>
><BR>
I have never heard of the five minutes rule; however, I do know that getting<BR>
in someone's face and screaming is legally considered assault-- I was told<BR>
this when my lawyer advised me to take a restraining order out against<BR>
someone and I said, "but they've never hit me" and he said "They don't have<BR>
to!"<BR>
<BR>
I do not actually think that picketers should be allowed to obstruct people<BR>
physically because it comes too close to behavior that borders on assault<BR>
and I prefer there to be less of a gray area.  Certainly they should not be<BR>
permitted to TOUCH or throw things on people.  This is the main problem I<BR>
have with abortion and animal rights protesters.  To get away from abortion,<BR>
I do believe that throwing red paint on women in furs is a form of assault<BR>
and battery, and I'm just waiting for some woman to have an allergic<BR>
reaction to the paint, perhaps a latex allergy, and collect a hefty<BR>
settlement.  That would please me immensely.<BR>
<BR>
I will also say that I have a lot more respect for people who sit outside of<BR>
buildings and quietly pray or carry signs than I do for anyone who gets in<BR>
my face.  The second someone begins to behave violently toward me, getting<BR>
in my face and attempting to interfere with my plans for the day, nothing<BR>
they have to say is of any interest to me.  This is not, IMNAAHO, peaceful.<BR>
<BR>
I may not think that they are Nazis but as Cynthia said, there are lots of<BR>
ways to convey a message to such a degree that no one will ever want to hear<BR>
it.  Whereas I have stopped and walked up to people standing quietly in a<BR>
row holding candles, asked them what it was about, LISTENED, taken<BR>
information, and in a few cases, been convinced.  (Most notably regarding<BR>
Falun Gong, recently.)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  I wonder about different protesting styles in the cultures of the<BR>
Third Imperium.  How do the Vilani protest ANYTHING?  Do the Vargr and the<BR>
Aslan even have demonstrations?  Do the K'Kree throw paint on old ladies in<BR>
furs?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan            93!              Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
the current fair warnings:<BR>
<BR>
"No matter what, expect the unexpected.  And whenever<BR>
possible, BE the unexpected."     -- Lynda Barry<BR>
<BR>
"Honest to the point of recklessness, and self-centered<BR>
 in the extreme."            -- Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia<BR>
<BR>
"God sent me to piss the world off!"  -- Eminem<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:52:08 -0800<BR>
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
At 01:24 AM 10/31/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>For those of you interested...<BR>
><BR>
>The deckplans for my LF-78 light freighter are now up on the web, along with<BR>
>the images. Just go to my website at www.truserve.com/~igor/traveller/  and<BR>
>go into the Gallery section.<BR>
{mass snippage}<BR>
<BR>
Andy,<BR>
<BR>
Nicely done drawings and 3D art. What software did you use for the deck <BR>
plans? The 3D model?<BR>
<BR>
Sincerely,<BR>
<BR>
Brian A. Howard<BR>
<BR>
Beware the sound of a Babel fish,<BR>
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.<BR>
<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~bruadh/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:02:12 -0800<BR>
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Wizard of Oz (Was Re: Traveller economics) [OT]<BR>
<BR>
At 11:36 PM 10/30/1999 -0400, Walter G. Smith wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Try "Mary, Mary, quite contrary..." Apparently this rhyme was about<BR>
>Queen Mary I and her habit of changing favourites (and removing the<BR>
>heads of the old ones).<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>>><BR>
<BR>
Close, but not quite. The Mary in question was Mary - Queen of Scots. <BR>
Elizabeth I had Mary imprisoned in the tower of London after 1570 as a <BR>
threat to her (QE I's) throne.<BR>
<BR>
>An oddity I heard of - a rumor that "Sing a song of sixpence" was<BR>
>a theives' cant recruiting notice for pirates. The "Maid" "hanging<BR>
>out the clothes" referred to a ship getting her canvas ready for a<BR>
>voyage, the "King" was the pirate himself, "counting out his money"<BR>
>referred to the wealth he'd be paying to experienced buccaneers, etc.<BR>
>It seemed a bit of a stretch, but I guess if you'll be singing it under<BR>
>the ears of the King's Men you've got to be obscure.<BR>
<BR>
This one I hadn't heard that one before. I'll have ask some buccaneer <BR>
friends of mine about this one. ;-><BR>
<BR>
Sincerely,<BR>
<BR>
Brian A. Howard<BR>
<BR>
Beware the sound of a Babel fish,<BR>
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.<BR>
<BR>
http://home.earthlink.net/~bruadh/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:17:03 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I am fiddling with something called Micrografx Simply 3D.  Ever heard of it?<BR>
<BR>
Yep... Havn't played with it thou.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:20:33 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: opengl95.exe<BR>
<BR>
Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> opengl95.exe<BR>
><BR>
> Any of you 3d artists out there have a copy of this file?  I can't find<BR>
> anywhere.<BR>
<BR>
Look on the Drivers disk that came with your video card.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:20:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> 7)The Aslan would consider it utterly dishonorable, as it would mean<BR>
> unilaterally breaking the treaty of Ftahir. The 'ihatei' were never<BR>
> _that_ much of a threat...they are not reaving fleets bent on<BR>
> conquest.  Most 'ihatei' invasions are far more like many immigrant<BR>
> groups in various parts of the world. They buy or rent a bit of land,<BR>
> set up shops, work their butts off, shop at each others stores, loan<BR>
> each other money, buy land, start taking over certain industries,<BR>
> sponsor more of their members to the communities, and soon, they're<BR>
> into the power structure, and they can buy more land, bring in more<BR>
> ihatei, etc.  Buying land is far preferable to fighting over it, much<BR>
> easier, simpler, and by far a surer way of getting it.<BR>
<BR>
And you are less like to wind up with land like Miles Vorkosigan's<BR>
infamous "glow in the dark" farmland. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:25:36 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace 2<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:28:35 -0700<BR>
>From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
>>>People who are opposed to abortion<BR>
>>>don't have abortions and leave other people alone.  I don't think people who<BR>
>>>yell at you or throw paint around outside of abortion clinics or fur stores<BR>
>>>should be attacked with flamethrowers.<BR>
><BR>
>>line.  All sides need to obey the law.  But I think the idea that forceful<BR>
>>advocacy is a sign of moral inferiority is going too far.  Some of those<BR>
>>who oppose laws forbidding the peaceful picketing of abortion clinics are<BR>
>>veterans of the sixties who remember when such tactics were used against<BR>
>>them.<BR>
<BR>
>Since when does yelling and throwing paint contstitute "peaceful picketing"?<BR>
<BR>
Yelling is indeed peaceful picketing by the standards generally<BR>
applied.  It is also something that doesn't hurt anyone and shouldn't<BR>
be restricted.  Like I said, even many pro-choice advocates who remember<BR>
the tactics used against them in the sixties have taken this position.<BR>
<BR>
Throwing paint is indeed a violation of the law and should be<BR>
dealt with.  But trying to use the tactics of a radical faction<BR>
to discredit an entire movement is a tactic that was wrong when<BR>
applied to anti-Vietnam War protestors and should be avoided<BR>
here.<BR>
<BR>
>If all the protestors do is stand around outside with their signs and<BR>
>draw attention to themselves, I have no problem with that.<BR>
<BR>
Others do.  Laws have been passed to limit this.<BR>
<BR>
> The minute they<BR>
>start harassing others and/or try to interfere with people trying to get<BR>
>into the clinic, they are no longer engaged in "peaceful picketing".<BR>
<BR>
I agree (as long as you are talking about real harassment and not simple<BR>
things like shouting your beliefs).  Even here there is some hypocrisy in<BR>
the world.  I know many people who see not problem with harassing scabs<BR>
crossing a picket line who get bent out of shape by anti-abortion<BR>
protestors.  The problem is that too many people are simply trying to limit<BR>
advocacy of views they disagree with.  Instead we should be trying to reach<BR>
a consistent definition of what is allowed and applying it evenly to all.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:28:40 -0700<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
At 09:29 AM 10/31/99 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
>The "physics" of Alderson Dives were worked out in detail by Dan<BR>
Alderson<BR>
>from CalTech to Jerry's requirements , as well as how to locate<BR>
Alderson<BR>
>points, and this was all explained in one of Jerry's articles in<BR>
Galaxy,<BR>
>"Building the Mote In God's Eye" which was later republished in the<BR>
>collection "A Step Further Out", which in itself is a wonderful<BR>
quick<BR>
>reference for all sorts of Travelleresque stuff.<BR>
<BR>
	Got an ISBN for this? Amazon pulled nothing up by the title, nor<BR>
under Pournelle's name.<BR>
<BR>
- -- "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for<BR>
   good men to do nothing. <BR>
   --Often attributed to Edmund Burke, but probably anonymous <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:37:09 -0800<BR>
From: "Darren Sherbot" <dsherbot@rockies.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass<BR>
<BR>
All people in vehicles drive courteously and without ever acting in an<BR>
irresponsible manner toward cyclists.  In all my years of comutting to work<BR>
in my single occupant vehicle, I've never cut off a cyclist by running a<BR>
yellow light or failing to shoulder check...even when using my cell or<BR>
prying up the lid on my Starbucks latte. What do "These people" who ride<BR>
bikes think...that their  tax dollars might actually be subsidizing<BR>
vehicular traffic and the roads they drive on?  I don't know why federal and<BR>
municipal governments haven't gotten together to ban this form of<BR>
environmentally friendly and healthily means of transportation from all<BR>
streets.  Do you know how hard it is to pass a cyclist in my Ford Explorer<BR>
and then make an abrupt right hand turn without hitting the "jerk" with my<BR>
side view mirror? Lets all work together to stop Critical Mass rides before<BR>
they covert others and force our tax dollars to be wasted on more efficient<BR>
public transportation systems.<BR>
<BR>
>Here in San Francisco we have a monthly even called "Critical Mass."  The<BR>
>last Friday of every month, thousands of bicyclists gather at the foot of<BR>
>Market St. to show solidarity among the people who ride in the City.<BR>
<BR>
>About two years ago, it turned into a riot.  (These people do deliberately<BR>
>block intersections, etc..) One protestor was filmed taking his tire pump<BR>
>and smashing out the headlights of a car that had the nerve to try and<BR>
>cross an intersection with a green light.  The bike messenger than<BR>
>deliberately rode into a pedestrian, knocking her down.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:03:45 -0500<BR>
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller:Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
> From: David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
> At 09:29 AM 10/31/99 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
[snip]<BR>
 which was later republished in the<BR>
> >collection "A Step Further Out", which in itself is a wonderful<BR>
> quick<BR>
> >reference for all sorts of Travelleresque stuff.<BR>
> <BR>
> 	Got an ISBN for this? Amazon pulled nothing up by the title, nor<BR>
> under Pournelle's name.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Amazon has a couple of entries under the title "Step Farther Out."  It's<BR>
out of print, and has been for ages.  But it's not too hard to find at a<BR>
reasonable price through some of the online used book finders.  I prefer<BR>
Bibliofind (http://www.bibliofind.com), which listed copies from $6 to $67<BR>
(the last for a near-mint hardback).  If I can't dig up my copy, I may have<BR>
to buy one of these myself.<BR>
<BR>
Tom Schoene<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:08:10 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Maps<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Another thing you're missing, here, I think. The 3I only appears bigger than<BR>
>all of the other groups because all we see are the 3I-centric maps. All of the<BR>
>major polities have occupied space that goes far beyond the fringes that show<BR>
>on the 3I maps.<BR>
><BR>
I possess a wall-map version and the version of the known space map in the<BR>
Library Data book clearly showing the extent fo the Zhodani, Imperial,<BR>
Aslan-Tlakhu, Hive Confed., Solomani Confed, and the 2000 worlds (K'Kree).<BR>
So far, none of the CT alien modules have disagreed with said maps.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:25:16 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Playing with Uzis...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/31/99 4:14:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Tascelt@aol.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Jesse...You know the doctor said you can't play with fire arms any more.  <BR>
 Don't make me tell him about this little incident!  They'll revoke your out <BR>
 patient status!<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Hey; don't joke like that. The BATF could be reading this, and I'm sure Jesse <BR>
doesn't need them knocking on his door....:-)<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: The ref can use this as a deux et machina to disarm trigger happy <BR>
PC's...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:26:48 -0600<BR>
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@truserve.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
Robert Prior wrote:<BR>
> Sorry, you've just lost me. I can only _run_ Netscape 2.0 (3.0 crashes).<BR>
><BR>
> I don't see what's wrong with simple text and graphics, but it's your<BR>
> website, not mine.<BR>
<BR>
and Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>
> Probably for the Java rollovers...<BR>
<BR>
Jesse is correct - I am using JavaScript (not Java, different animals) to<BR>
facilitate the rollovers. My sight also uses DHTML, Frames, and Layers. I've<BR>
strived to keep my file sizes small and the sight fast - I feel its pretty<BR>
decent in the speed department. However, I could be mistaken. I would value<BR>
everyone's opinion on the matter.<BR>
<BR>
I sympathsize with Rob and others who either cannot or will not run the<BR>
newer browsers. That was why I initially tried to have two websites - one<BR>
text, one graphics. But that proved to be very time-consuming, and I feel<BR>
that the graphical version is better - looks nicer and is easier to<BR>
navigate. YMMV. So that's the one I picked.<BR>
<BR>
I am, however, making an effort to be fully HTML compliant, and I'm using no<BR>
browser-specific tags.<BR>
<BR>
I do apologize to everyone out there who disagrees with my decision - if you<BR>
feel strongly about it, please email me off the list and plead your case. I<BR>
changed it once, I could do it again...<BR>
<BR>
Andy<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
| Andrew Akins                                                       |<BR>
| Home: igor@truserve.com - http://www.truserve.com/~igor/           |<BR>
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
| IMTU: tg++(**) tc+ ru+ ge 3i+ jt- st au ls+ kk++ hi+ as+ va+ dr++  |<BR>
|       so+ zh+ vi+ da+                                              |<BR>
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |<BR>
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++                          |<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:05:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
>Sorry, you've just lost me. I can only _run_ Netscape 2.0 (3.0 >crashes).<BR>
><BR>
>I don't see what's wrong with simple text and graphics, but it's your<BR>
>website, not mine.<BR>
<BR>
Rob, why not move to IE 5.0?  I finally had to dump Netscape because with<BR>
every succeeding incarnation the code got sloppier and more crash-prone.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:11:44 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> 6)The Hivers wouldn't do it this way...they'd manipulate the 3I<BR>
> to fall of it's own accord...much bigger bragging rights doing<BR>
> it that way than straightforward conquest. They also would not<BR>
> ally with the K'Kree, or the K'Kree with them.<BR>
<BR>
Ah ha!  That explains the *real* reason for the Rebelion.<BR>
<BR>
JFK^B^B^BStrephon  was  actually  assassinated  by   the   Hiver-<BR>
manipulated IRIS, and Dulinor was set up to take  the  fall.  And<BR>
the Hivers used the ubiquitous Droyne (aka "the Greys") as  their<BR>
agents.<BR>
<BR>
The truth is out there ... trust no one ...<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
(After watching X-File videos all weekend)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:15:38 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: [OT] Web pages (was: Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:15 AM 10/31/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Probably for the Java rollovers.  While all the eye-candy looks great on<BR>
>sites that use them, haveing worked professionally as a web graphics<BR>
>designer for the last 3 months or so, I constantly hear arguements about<BR>
>page load times, overhead, etc.  While I WAS planning on doing something<BR>
>extensive with Java and having lots o' bells and whistles when I updated my<BR>
>site, I've since changed my mind.  Most the redone site will have is tables<BR>
>and maybe a couple of (short!) animated .gifs.<BR>
<BR>
Having done similar work (although from the programmer, not graphics point <BR>
of view) I am of the opinion that while javascript rollovers and such are <BR>
neat and allow for more attractive sites, they should never be required for <BR>
site operation.<BR>
<BR>
A specific of this is to use the <!-- <SCRIPT> </SCRIPT> --> syntax for <BR>
scripts.<BR>
<BR>
Thus people without 4+ browsers will be able to use them, although it won't <BR>
be as pretty.  Note that this doesn't mean multiple versions, just one <BR>
version readable by most.  Techniques like that allow nice looking 4+ pages <BR>
that are work as less attractive 3+ pages.  I don't remember the difference <BR>
between 2 and 3, so I'm not sure that the same can be done there.  The <BR>
policy at my company is that all pages must be usable (if ugly) by 3+ <BR>
browsers....<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:31:02 -0600<BR>
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@truserve.com><BR>
Subject: Don't say I never listen to you...<BR>
<BR>
Well, ask and ye shall receive.<BR>
<BR>
Several of you have emailed me with comments about my website. In response<BR>
to your comments, I have _again_ changed the sight - removing all scripting<BR>
and much of the graphic "bitz".<BR>
<BR>
What remains? I'm using the following:<BR>
    HTML 3.2<BR>
    Frames<BR>
    Cascading Style Sheets, but the site will work with out them.<BR>
    Tables<BR>
<BR>
No DHTML, no JavaScript, no Applets, etc...<BR>
<BR>
Several people said that they thought a site should be pure text - no<BR>
graphical elements or layout at all. Well, I don't think I can go that far.<BR>
I find text only sites to be rather boring - my opinion, of course.<BR>
<BR>
I hope that you find this _new_ version to be acceptable and faster. And<BR>
keep the comments coming.<BR>
<BR>
Andy<BR>
<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
| Andrew Akins                                                       |<BR>
| Home: igor@truserve.com - http://www.truserve.com/~igor/           |<BR>
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
| IMTU: tg++(**) tc+ ru+ ge 3i+ jt- st au ls+ kk++ hi+ as+ va+ dr++  |<BR>
|       so+ zh+ vi+ da+                                              |<BR>
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |<BR>
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++                          |<BR>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1287<BR>
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